reviews_and_ramblings

I don't think that's "pervy" at all. I came to LJ and was amazed to discover how many women are interested in what we do in the sack. I find it kind of flattering myself (haha).

I have always problems to explain why I find so erotic reading M/M romance. I'm a straight woman (and I think that most of M/M romance female reader are straight) and I have behind more than 20 years of M/F romance readings, but the most exciting I have read are M/M.

Yesterday, after downloading your Christmas porno gift (and believe me, it's my first M/M porno, till now I have only read, never seen), I browsed the net to find some info on Brent Corrigan: on his blog there is an interesting poll about the target readers of the blog. Obviously 78% are gay male, but not so obviously 13 are straight male and 5% straight female and 1% gay female.

So I'm in the 5%! I'm not alone :-) Elisa

You're certainly not alone; the vast majority of the people who read my fiction are women.

I see it this way - straight men have been watching girl-on-girl action since pornography was invented and nobody bats an eyelash. So why shouldn't straight women like to see (or read about) men getting it on? It's only logical to me. Lots of women think too much - relax and enjoy the porn, I say, it's what it's there for. :)

I've been trying to get this through the thick brains of the men in my family -- they don't get why I write m/m, but think it is perfectly natural for men to like f/f. Can we say double standards? :D

Or macho insecurities, haha. *is traitor that way* :D

I have suggested to them that if they were more secure in their own sexuality then m/m writing/living wouldn't bother them in the least. You can imagine the response I got. LOL

Ahhhh, never put in question men insecurities!!! Elisa

LOL!! I wish everyone would be more secure about sexuality and sex in general. What's the big deal? The world won't come to an end, no babies will be eaten, it's only sex!

It's probably jealousy too, and fear of not measuring up. I don't know if women have that problem when their men view porn.

> I don't know if women have that problem when their men view porn.

Well if I think to a men viewing a porn, my first thought is, well, he can try that with me if he wants. But I think that mostly men (in Italy maybe), don't like to think that his woman could have some "thought" or desires...

Elisa

That's unfortunate - men who think this way miss out, I imagine; they benefit from an enthusiastic partner too, after all!

I'm traditional in a certain way. I'm strictly monogamous: when I love someone, I'm so deep into the relationship that I can't see no one else (I'm a Leo I'm very possessive and passionate). And in a certain way I'm also arrogant: I highly value myself, so my thought is, if a man has me, why he needs to have someone else? And this is the reason cause I can't bear betrayal: if someone, friend or lover, betrays me, he/she is out of my life.

But these are maybe too strong feeling for some men. They tend to be overwhelmed.

I'm not monogamous (though I've been in the same "main" relationship since I was sixteen years old and don't intend to leave him ever), but I think men are possessive and jealous too. Maybe in a different way - if it's "just" sex I'm fine with my partner being with someone else; but if there's emotional involvement I'd probably go crazy with jealousy too. But that's just me - I know plenty of gay men who couldn't handle being in an open relationship and insist on total monogamy.

> if it's "just" sex I'm fine with my partner being with someone else; but if there's emotional involvement I'd probably go crazy with jealousy too

Bingo! Here is the difference. For me it's impossible to separate sex from emotional involvement. If a man make sex with a woman, he must feel something for her (Consciously I know that it's not like that, but emotionally I can't think in other way), and so he is betraying me. You instead, separate sex from love: if your man make sex with another man, he is not making love, so it's all right, yes?

You instead, separate sex from love: if your man make sex with another man, he is not making love, so it's all right, yes?

That's exactly it - it's more like...getting a hamburger somewhere. Yes, we really can be that shallow, lol.

No, not shallow, different. I strongly believe that people has the right to behave how they want (given that they don't hurt someone else). In the big and in the small thing.

If you have a partner who thinks as you think, it's all right that you have your way and I have mine.

What I hate most are those people who claims to love the others, but only if they choose to behave as themself.

Individuality and diversity are the most beautiful things in the world, they make us unique.

Some weeks ago Max, now one of my LJ friend (and I have redirected him to your LJ cause I think you have a lot in common) asked on his LJ "What did you find in relationship/affair between two men/boys?"

This is my answer: "Sincerity, clearness. Men are rough and strong, but they are also direct. They don't waltz around the matter, they step into it fully, like a splash in a pool."

And this is his reply: "Yes, we don't waltz around, because we can't. We get bored with process to built a relationship while women enjoy it. We jump into the pool and later have quarrel. "Look! I got soaking wet! You pushed me!" "No! You first dived into it!" Women always think well about what they'll become before jump into the pool. Sorry, it's not at all romantic, but truth. That is why we need sometimes romance story"

Another good friend of mine is William Maltese. He has answered to a question if he can write with female perspective. Here is his answer: "Men, I truly do believe, are definitely more out for sex for the sake of sex. They see a woman, “any” woman, and their inclination is to mate. Women, sex important, too (child-bearing always in mind, though), I think, have a tendency to sit back, before getting down to the nitty-gritty with any guy, to try and figure out all of the favorable and negative qualities in a man which might be passed on by the genes to any offspring that may (or may not) result from a sexual encounter. Women prefer their sex with at least a little bit of emotional involvement, even if it doesn’t always require an attending proposal for marriage and/or an engagement ring on the finger. You see it all of the time in nature, wherein the female of the species doesn’t consent to sex with just every Tom, Dick, and Harry to appear on the scene. She usually waits for the guy who’ll provide her with the most of what she wants in a man. Well, okay, in most of nature, it’s the weaklings that get beaten off by the butcher studs, but with “civilized” human beings that kind of natural selection doesn’t always happen, making it particularly important that a woman decide who’s out there “for her” and whether he can provide her with what she wants, emotionally and physically. Therefore, for women, sex is a more cerebral thing — at least in my opinion. Women think a lot; men just jump on in (and or “on”) and think about it later (if they think about it at all)."

So, now I believe that men think that women are too cerebral... maybe we have to try to be less cerebral and more instinctual...

Elisa

Edited 2007-12-26 11:52 (UTC)

Haha - Max is right! That's why men seldom go on dates, we start off with sex and sometimes wake up to find ourselves in a relationship with no real clue when that happened. :D

Women think a lot; men just jump on in (and or “on”) and think about it later (if they think about it at all)

I get that impression too, from talking to female friends - probably for the very reasons stated in your comment. I almost get the impression that for women, intimacy is required BEFORE sex can take place, and for men, intimacy is created DURING sex. That's why we're often bound to fall in love with someone we're attracted to and have sex with repeatedly.

Sounds like there is a real sense of freedom to be found in that.

p.s. thanks for friending me :D

p.s. thanks for friending me :D

Thanks back and you're welcome - new friends are always great. :))

I think I have a "male" mind sometimes. I have my standard regarding men, but I always say I can't falling in love with a man I don't physically like. I can be friend with him, but if I'm not physically comfort around him, I can't have a sex relationship. And for me sex and love are very connected. I'm not agree with some women when they say that women can love with mind and men only with body. Elisa

I'm not agree with some women when they say that women can love with mind and men only with body.

I don't agree with that either. Most of my friends are women and we talk about this kind of thing a lot, especially on LJ. I think men do tend to see sex as something separate often, something to be consumed quickly and anonymously. But I also think men and women are very similar in a lot of ways, even if our repressive society still has to get used to the idea.

> I think men do tend to see sex as something separate often, something to be consumed quickly and anonymously.

This is why maybe I like romance. In it sex is a always a big part of the "why" of the book (even if it's not graphic in detail) and maybe I like M/M romance, cause in it I find men who "think" and give to sex the right importance. In a classical romance I read only the female perspective and men are always supporting characters... I know the female perspective, it's my perspective, so I want to read about male point of view.

I read both M/M romance written by women and by men. I can say when it's a man or a woman... but I like both.

Elisa

I write erotica, but I don't read much of it myself, I admit. I'm more drawn to graphic porn, and mainly in "visual" format like a film or magazine. I do like writing erotica because I love to write, and I think there's a big difference between erotica and porn. I spent some time reading M/M erotica written by women, and since mostly women read what I post at LJ, I really had to make some adjustments in the way I write (which I gladly did - I think women write better erotica if they have writing talent, I really do, the quality is much better, it's not just about abs and biceps and the c*ck, lol). I don't think my writing is great by any stretch of the imagination, but I think it's improved a lot by doing that.

I have read some of your fiction on your LJ and I like it. Female M/M authors always says that they use male beta reader, now you (and also other male writer, like Bobby Michaels (who unfortunately it's again in hospital just now, my thought goes to him and hope he will be at home again soon)) say that appreciated female beta reader :-))) We will arrive to an ungenrized style? Where if the author is male or female doesn't count?

Elisa

I totally rely on my female beta - I'm glad I have a woman friend to beta, especially since I write BDSM fiction. I often bounce an idea off her and she tells me this or that activity (usually things involving humiliation) won't go over well with female readers. She keeps me focused and prevents me from going overboard on the kink and at the same time lets me know where I went too light on the emotional aspects, or where the male characters' motives need to be clarified more.

I recently read a short story by Syd McGinley. It's a Master/Pet relationship, between an alien Master and a human Pet, and the human is really treat like a pet. In another story always by Syd, there is a relationship between two Alpha male and their sex trespasses on violence sometimes... Well, reading it I have questioned myself if I like what I read, and in the end I said yes, but I don't know if I would like someone to do that to me... Elisa

BDSM fiction is pretty popular, even if finding good realistic BDSM stories is like looking for a needle in a haystack. Most people who read my stuff aren't into it themselves, but that's ok - I am, and it's always best to write what you know. I'd have a hard time writing a "vanilla" story because I can't relate very well.

Well, I think that reading something written by someone who "believes" in what he writes and not by someone who "follows" the stream is better, it makes it more realistic and so you don't have to questioned yourself if what you read could be real.

One time I discuss with Max on a book by Bobby Michaels. I like the book, but I have some problems to believe on all it's written in the story. I point to Max some scenes, and he has replied to me, "what do you find strange in it? It's normal...". In that moment I have understood that I'm a woman and Max and Bobby for sure are men.

Elisa

Haha - that's precisely the reason I'm glad my beta is a woman, she points things out to me and says "This will make no sense at all - explain!". :)

Can I be the devil's advocate? But if you have written it in that way cause it's how you feel it, changing it to be more understandable to female readers, it's in some way like bertraying your mind, style and gender?

Why you have to change it? Instead could I change my mind, and with me all female reader? Better why I can't have my mind and try to understand your way?

Instead could I change my mind, and with me all female reader? Better why I can't have my mind and try to understand your way?

I don't see it as betraying my mind or gender, more as clarifying it, showing what motivates and action or what the root of a certain mentality is. I think people can only understand something if it's described in a way they can relate to on some level. It's the same way when I elaborate on BDSM, and what really goes on in the mind of a sub or Dom, slave or Master, what motivates them and how they think and feel. It's always the greatest thing for me when I get feedback telling me I'm showing readers a whole new world and that they're beginning to understand it for the first time in their lives. I hope that doesn't sound like boasting, but I relate to people best through writing, and I think describing things in a way others can understand or relate to brings us closer together on some level. Because when it comes right down to it, it turns out we really aren't that different at all.

> Because when it comes right down to it, it turns out we really aren't that different at all.

if more people could think in that way, life will be a lot simplier and nicer.

Gossip!

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