Amazon Helpful Votes...

[reviews_and_ramblings]

... what is the mystery under them?

I really don't understand. I know that they are used to rank the review, and probably to rank also the reviewer, better I'm sure they are used for that, but I really don't understand how they are given and by whom.

I have a lot of helpful positive votes, 88% on the total, so I'm very grateful to people who click on "yes" this review was helpful for me, and tried to ignore the 12% of negative votes, but today I notice something really strange. I was the first to review a book, and, even if I shouldn't say it, my review was good, not only since I loved the book, but also since people, publisher and author told me so.

So I posted my review on Amazon, and for a bit I was alone and no helpful positive vote. Then today I received a negative vote... and guys that made me think, since I really think my review was good. So I click on the book and noticed that the same book has now two other reviews, five stars like me, and from two frequently reviewer like me. And they both had two helpful positve votes! Why me not? (pout).

But the most strange thing is when I post a good review, or at least a review that gives an idea of the book, when maybe there isn't even the product description (and this happens often) and I'm the only review, and someone click the helpful negative button... what the hell have I said to make that people click on the negative button?

It's not the first time I discuss this matter with other Amazon reviewers, Jetm in primis, but I read also a blog by Amos Lassen... but I'd like to listen also to my friends opinion, are those votes really "real", are they indicative of a good review or not?

Comments

[erastes.livejournal.com]

I always click on the Yes or No whenever I read the reviews of a book. I click both No and Yes honestly.

If someone disagrees with your review (perhaps they didn't like the book you reviewed) they are likely to say no.

[elisa-rolle.livejournal.com]

Mmm perhaps this explain when I receive a negative feedback when I'm alone, but when more or less three reviews say the same thing, with the same rating?

I don't question for example when I saw a negative vote in one of my review when at the same time a negative review receive a positive vote: it's obvious that someone didn't like the book and gave negative to me and positive to the review opposite than mine.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Heh. Welcome to our world, Elisa. You write a review a day, often more than that - Imagine what it's like to get a bad review for something you've spent 2 years writing.

[elisa-rolle.livejournal.com]

Yes, probably I'm too naive and should really stop to question too much ;-) Elisa

[jl_merrow]

I'm sure most people are honest with their votes - but there's always going to be someone who's messing with your head, or takes exception to your (charming) accent, or gets annoyed just because you didn't put in the one tiny bit of information that they were looking for.
Don't worry about it. You can't please everyone! :D

[elisa-rolle.livejournal.com]

Yes, probably. It's that I really loved that review :-( Elisa

[taste-is-sweet.livejournal.com]

I have a feeling that the person who gave you a negative review might have had trouble with your English. I happen to love your Italian accent when you write, but someone coming across it the first time might not have the patience to get everything you're saying. You might have gotten a negative review from that.

Funnily enough, I was actually speaking to my therapist this morning about exactly this thing--what should matter is how you feel about that review. If you loved it, that's what's important. Unfortunately, not everyone will love what you love. That's something I'm trying to beat into my own head so I'll actually enjoy writing again....

[elisa-rolle.livejournal.com]

Yes, I know that the important thing is that the book left me something, and that I loved it and loved writing the review. This is the only thing that I need to consider. Thank you, Elisa

[dontkickmycane.livejournal.com]

I've never really put much stock in those sorts of things. I would think the fact you're swamped with review requests from authors is indicative of good reviews. People wouldn't keep asking you if you didn't do a fair, and decent job of your reviews. That's just my opinion, though.

[elisa-rolle.livejournal.com]

Yes, probably I have only to learn to not look at that 0/1 helpful vote ;-) Probably if I didn't like the book so much, the negative vote would have been less important. Elisa

[jordan-c-price.livejournal.com]

Those little buttons are so anonymous, aren't they? I don't imagine we'll ever know why they're getting clicks simply because there's no accountability involved in clicking them.

[elisa-rolle.livejournal.com]

Yes they are... Probably I wouldn't care less if they gave me a reason... you can't force to leave a comment, but it would be nice. Elisa

[jessewave.livejournal.com]

Elisa
I never really thought about it. I don't post a lot of reviews on amazon and recently very few. I and a number of amazon reviewers had a scare when an author reportedly found out a reviewer's personal information and she and her friends harassed the reviewer. A top reviewer (I think he was #10 which is pretty high) quit a few months ago when he got tired of the bullshit on amazon. I rarely check the number of positives or negatives on my reviews whenever I do post them. It's all a game.

Erases is right - imagine getting a bad review for a book that you spent 2 years writing and thought was hot, only to get the thumbs down. Some people may be in a bad mood when they click the "No" button. *g* At least you're in the positive zone!!

[elisa-rolle.livejournal.com]

Yes probably is better to see the glass more than half full ;-) As I said, if the review was one of my "so and so" nothing special, probably I wouldn't have noticed it, but it was a book I really loved. Elisa

[alex-beecroft.livejournal.com]

I'll admit that I always give a thumbs up to a positive review of my books and don't vote at all on a negative. I tend to use it as a way of saying 'yay! Thank you for liking my book!' Which is probably not what it's meant for. After that, though, it's not something I tend to notice. The ways of Amazon are mysterious and often irritating ;)

[elisa-rolle.livejournal.com]

This is the same way I approached it. I don't use the No click, I prefer to use it in a positive way... The same way as I approach a review. Probably I'm too naivee. Elisa

[lee-rowan.livejournal.com]

I'll click 'helpful' if a negative review tells me something about a book that means I'd be annoyed if I bought it - and that includes spoilers; if I were reading something labeled as 'gay romance' and it ended (as so many 'classic' lesbian stories do) with the gay character being 'saved' by religion or a person of the "correct" gender... heck, "not helpful" might just mean that you didn't say anything that actually helped the person make up her mind.

OTOH, you may have been trolled by somebody who doesn't like the book, or the writer, or is jealous of your record as a reviewer and sees you as competition. Don't sweat the small stuff - and anyone using Amazon ratings for petty nastiness is definitely "small stuff."

[elisa-rolle.livejournal.com]

Yes, probably he is a troll, since I really cannot find a reason to give a "No" to that review. Well, it's the life, I will write some other good reviews ;-) Elisa

[julesjones]

There are gangs of people who go around posting positive feedback on each others' reviews and negative feedback on anyone who isn't part of their gang, as a way to boost their rankings in the reviewer league table. Since you're one of the high ranked reviewers these days, you've probably become a target for this behaviour.

[elisa-rolle.livejournal.com]

But people don't have anything else to do? Can't they read and post reviews instead of doing that? I know that they are easy answers and that people sometime has hidden reasons, but really, in this case Live and Let Live! Elisa

[julesjones]

It comes under the heading of People Are Weird. Plus there's also the thing where being a very highly ranked reviewer means that get offered free products to review, so for some people there's a commercial incentive as well as what they see as status.

[elisa-rolle.livejournal.com]

Yes, it happens sometime that authors contact me through Amazon, but it's not so often. Most of the review copies I receive are thanks to my LiveJournal. And most of the time, really, when someone offer me a print book for review, I ask him/her if she is really sure to want to send a book in Italy. And then, I can count on the fingers of two hands how many time that happens. Elisa

[joeannk.livejournal.com]

I'm ashamed to admit that although I frequently read Amazon reviews, I seldom bother to vote. Like julesjones pointed out, there could be --and mostly likely is--all kinds of funny things going on with the votes there. Big scandals regarding their reviews and reviewers tend to pop up at Amazon so I've never put much stock in a single review from there. Rather I look at trends and general opinion. Also, I like the recommended books lists that readers prepare. I've found lots of great reads that way.

[elisa-rolle.livejournal.com]

I like the Amazon Lists too, it's one of the reason why I frequent the Amazon reviewers world. Probably I will have to consider the positive side and let it go the negative one. Elisa

[valkovalin.livejournal.com]

Hi, Elisa. I know just what you mean. As a reader, I tend to vote helpful on the Amazon reviews that give me information and the ones like yours where I can tell the reviewer put time and energy into crafting the review.

Then I would try to write the same type of reviews that I would find helpful, and I'd get negative votes. Like you, I couldn't help wondering, what is the reason for this?

I think that Jules Jones explained it well. Amazon has become such a weird place with "gangs" of reviewers following each other around the "cyber-playground" and manipulating each other's review rankings.

Do you remember when Amazon changed the ranking system recently and some reviewers got promoted while others got demoted? That was Amazon's attempt to combat the manipulative tendencies of the voters. But I think that sort of thing is built into the system by now and can't be eradicated.

It's also like what Jordan said: it's anonymous. So you can have a bunch of sullen teenagers voting against every review that looks thoughtful and well-crafted simply because they like tearing down the creative stuff. Since it's anonymous, they can do it with no repercussions.

Also, you never know. Sometimes we're moving so fast through cyberspace that we click the wrong button! I've done this before -- clicked not helpful when I meant helpful.

I almost never go to Amazon any more or post reviews. I often don't think to post reviews because I'm reading more and more ebooks, which aren't represented on Amazon.

Never mind the reviews. It's the traffic statistics for your review blog that matter.

[elisa-rolle.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much for all the kind words.

> Never mind the reviews. It's the traffic statistics for your review blog that matter.

And have you seen this month? I'm almost in awe, and also a bit scared... but I really love my LJ.

Elisa

[valkovalin.livejournal.com]

You're very welcome. I think you set the highest standards for reviewing in general and not just m/m. I've learned a lot as a reviewer just seeing what you do!

And the statistics? Oh, wow, Elisa! You've increased your montly traffic by more than FOUR TIMES what it was one year ago! That's absolutely fabulous! Many congratulations. You deserve it for all your hard work. :)

[elisa-rolle.livejournal.com]

Yes, but it is also so scaring, now I have perfomance issue ;-) Is there a viagra pills for reviewers??? Elisa

[valkovalin.livejournal.com]

Oh, ha, ha, ha! I hadn't thought about that! Now the pressure is on ...

It's the same thing that the author Dan Brown must be going through as he's about to bring out the sequel to The Da Vinci Code after waiting for six years. They're timing the book release with the movie release of Angels and Demons, and they're predicting that it will be the biggest book promo ever -- bigger than Harry Potter.

Viagra for reviewers? I love that!

[ebony-silvers.livejournal.com]

Negative feedback is never fun. I got a bad review for "A Matter of Necessity" today and even though it has tons of good ones, it still bothers me. Ah, the fragility of the ego...

[elisa-rolle.livejournal.com]

And my ego is so big that it has a look of weak points ;-) Elisa

[marymonroe.livejournal.com]

I don't always bother voting on the reviews I read on Amazon, most of the time because I'm not logged in and I don't want to bother doing so. Even then, I vote on maybe 1 out of every 10-15 reviews I quick-read (I rarely bother to read every word - sad, but true). I'd say there are two cases where I do bother voting. If a review gives me an information I didn't know and that I am happy to learn, or better, an information about that book that I was specifically looking for (for instance, does character X appear in the book?), then I click on "helpful". If I have read a book I thought was particularly bad, then happen to check that book's Amazon listing later and see a glowing review of it, then I'll click "unhelpful" (or the opposite, click unhelful on a bad review of a book I loved). Nothing personal to the reviewer; I don't have time to write reviews myself, so it's my only way to let other Amazon visitors I don't share that opinion. Oh, and I also click "unhelpful" for four-lines gushing reviews going like "OMG this was such an awesome book go buy it this author rocks!!!!". And I've clicked unhelpful if a review didn't help me make up my mind about the book because it was too vague, or unclear whether the reviewer actually liked it or not.

So, maybe it was just a case of someone who didn't think the same as you about the book, or who was looking for some specific information he/she considered important but that you didn't happen to cover because for you it wasn't a major point. It is nothing personal and has nothing about the quality of your reviews - having been a reviewer for so long, you know that there are always going to be people who'll disagree with you. Don't worry about that :).

[elisa-rolle.livejournal.com]

Also I hate the two lines reviews that are only a gushing on the book... they are not reviews, they are comments! Oh well, probably I loved the book, but it was not a simple book, and someone else maybe hated it... or my review ;-) Elisa

[kopernik.livejournal.com]

I am much more likely to vote on a review at Amazon if I disliked it than if I liked it, and I'm sure that's the case with most people, so however many negative votes you have, the percentage is probably skewed right off the bat.

When I give a review a thumbs down, it's generally because it doesn't tell me anything I don't already know from the blurb, or because the reviewer has graded the book harshly for stupid reasons. ("It was beautifully written but the bad guy was too bad! Boo hoo! Two stars!")

I do like it when a reviewer gets to the heart of the matter, rather than rehashing the plot at length. I can get the plot, usually on that same page. I want to know what worked for people and what didn't. What surprised them. What made them think.

On the other hand, if a reviewer spoils me for the exact thing I need to know (frequently whether or not the book has a HEA ending,) that's instantly going to get a positive review from me. I like to know what I'm getting into, but that's just me.

Anyway, I would try not to worry about it. No matter how well done a review is, it's going to displease plenty of people, some for good reasons and some for bad.

[elisa-rolle.livejournal.com]

So you give a positive vote for the same reason why someone else give a negative vote, for the spoilers ;-) I always heard around to not give up the book, or at least not too much. See? people are really different in their way. Elisa

[kopernik.livejournal.com]

It's true, I absolutely prefer to be spoiled because I have a very difficult time shaking off books (also tv and movies) that leave me in a funk. Surprises are overrated.

I had an extremely bad experience years ago with a mystery where a child abuser went free at the end of the book, no one knew he had been doing it, and the audience was meant to assume the abuse would just continue forever. NOT a happy surprise. I have read very, very few books since then where I didn't at least glance at the last few pages first.

And since I've started reading m/m romances, I do always want to know if the ending is happy or at least hopeful. I battle depression, and I can't handle getting my heart shredded. I guess that makes me a big baby, but oh well. There are plenty of happy books to read in the world, and hardly time enough for me to get to them.